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Admittedly due to my love of true stamina tests, the Belmont Stakes is, hands-down, myfavorite of the Triple Crown races, closely followed by the Kentucky Derby withall its pageantry and then finally the Preakness. No offense to Pimlico or allmy Maryland friends, but, irrationally I suppose, I always associate it with disappointment,as in all of my favorite Derby winners (and thus potential Triple Crown champions)that failed to capture the second jewel beginning with Foolish Pleasure, GenuineRisk (damn you, AngelCordero), Winning Colors…thelist goes on. I’m not a fan of I’ll HaveAnother, mostly due to his disgraceful excuse for a trainer (if thisisn’t enough to convince you, then consider thesefolks with more recent concrete examples). Thus, I won’t be toodisappointed when he loses on Saturday. I like Bodemeister, but actually think a new shooter will be even better,hopefully Tiger Walk or Cozzetti. I’ll have more thoughts onSaturday’s undercard later.
Today, it’s Black-Eyed Susan day, as well as the FemaleJockey Challenge at Pimlico, featuring top-notch riders Rosie Napravnik,Emma-Jayne Wilson, Forest Boyce, Vicky Baze, Rosemary Homeister Jr., TammiPiermarini and Greta Kuntzweiler. Apparently pin-up girl Chantal Sutherland istoo busy riding two maiden claimers at Hollywood Park to make the trip east,but she won’t be missed. The ladies earn points for finishing in the top 4placings; for those interested, the scoring races are the second, third, fifthand seventh races (and they will be riding against men in each race).
Race 8 is the Miss Preakness Stakes, featuring the awesome,undefeated Agave Kiss. She workednicely over the Pimlico track this week and, with her speed, will likely be hardto beat. Cutting back in distance from her third-place finish in the Grade 3Comely against Kentucky Oaks runner-up Broadway’s Alibi, Sagamore Farm’s Millionreasonswhy is my sentimentalpick, but think Singlet could also bedangerous cutting back; she ran well early with Broadway’s Alibi. And what the hellis D. Wayne Lukas thinking putting Colonial Empress in here? Seriously,unless you’re just trying to get more black-type to retire her as early aspossible, why not drop her down into maiden company and build up herconfidence?
In the Jim McKay Turf Sprint, last year’s winnerMaryland-bred 6-year-old Ben’s Catreturns, but he’s all the way out in post 11—ugh! Another senior citizen, Ju Jitsu Jax breaks right inside him,but appears in a bit better form. From a much-better post position, Zeb looks promising, having run thirdlast-out in the Grade 3 Shakertown at Keeneland—he’s also won with RosieNapravnik aboard before, so I’m hoping to get a good price on him. Cactus Son also looks suited to thedistance and comes out of a strong Grade 3 Turf Sprint at Churchill.
I handicapped the Black-Eyed Susan Stakes for ThoroFan; you can check out my thoughts here. Looking for a price, I landed on Welcome Guest, but I’m afraid she’ll bethe “wise guy” pick for too many and thus not be as lucrative a choice as shecould be. Hoping Glinda The Goodmight add a little more to my exotics payout, but also think In Lingerie is good play.
In the Very One Stakes, Inspiredand Well Deserved both come out ofthe Giant’s Causeway turf sprint at Keeneland, and will thus likely garner muchfavoritism. That said, I’m intrigued by the 3-year-olds, Jazzy Idea and especially SensibleLady who failed horribly against Agave Kiss in the Trevose, but looks tolike turf better.
And, boy, didn’t the Pimlico Special come up strong? Alternation is riding a three-race winstreak, all at Oaklawn, but I’m thinking YawannaTwist may run big here. Sentimentally though, I’d love to see Endorsement win—he’s been a long-timefavorite ever since I cashed on his Sunland Derby win, and it’s always good tosee a once-injured horse make it back to the track. Considering Martin Garciarode him when he broke his maiden, the jockey switch doesn’t bother me, and he’scertainly bred to get the distance. HymnBook really disappointed last out in the Oaklawn Handicap, but he should beflying late for a piece; despite his fast workouts, I’m still not sold on Mission Impazible although he does gaina nice weight advantage against the others.
While he never ran at Pimlico, well-traveled Mambo Meister willbe remembered with an 8-furlong turf overnight stakes at Calder on May 26.Another gallant warrior, 9-year-old PresiousPassion returns on Saturday, in the Elkwood Stakes at Monmouth—hard tobelieve he’s been retired now since January 2011! Here’s to a safe journey, oldboy.
30 Eylül 2012 Pazar
Preakness Day
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Post time for the G 3 Gallorette is an ungodly 11:30 a.m.,and the next race isn’t until over an hour later? How odd. [edited to add: ah, they ran the G1 Arabians race in between]. Zagora disappointed as the favorite last out in the G1 Jenny Wiley,and I fear she needs more early speed to close into than she’ll get today.Since Javier Castellano sticks with Zagora,Ramon Dominguez picks up the ride on Laughingwho gets a nice 6-pound weight advantage off her foe. She’s a half sister tothe monster Viva Pataca, and has already won going longer—in last June’s NijinskyStakes at Leopardstown, at 200 to 1, no less! I also like Smart Sting here, cutting back and regaining the services of JohnVelazquez.
Not sure I can articulate why exactly, but I love the oldwarrior Ravalo to pop a surprise inthe G3 Maryland Sprint—it looks to be a pretty weak field overall so thuswilling to take a flyer on the old boy [blah, he's scratched!]. The James W. Murphy looks evenlycontested, though, with Easy Crossingshortening up and coming in off a break with Ramon Dominguez aboard forChristophe Clement, a potent combo. The other Clement entry is on the faroutside, Achilles; his dam Solvigwas a dual-G3 winner on turf and lots of quality turfsters in his family, soexpect him to do well moving up in class. Returning to turf should help Gold Megillah, as it should Hammers Terror who finished ahead ofhim in the G3 Lexington last out. For a price, though, I’ll risk some bucks onJimmy Toner trainee Two Months Rentwho just missed against older horses last out. Interestingly, Illinois Derbywinner Done Talking is in here,trying turf for the first time—or maybe he’ll be a scratch when the race stayson turf?
Honestly, I’m ambivalent about the G3 Allaire Dupont, asnone in here particularly thrill me. AbsintheMinded is too irregular in her efforts to inspire confidence, and newshooter Awesomemundo is a bit greenfor my taste. Love and Pride shouldlike shortening up, but I’ll probably risk some on Canadian Mistress off her form against Awesome Maria this year.
The G2 Dixie features CasinoHost coming in off two big wins this year—and there lays the problem. Thenagain, there’s not much in the way of quality turf horses these days in theU.S. so maybe this is the best we get. Oh, how I long for the days of Einstein,Better Talk Now and even Paddy O’Prado! SmartBid won the G3 Fair Grounds Handicap, and then bombed last out. Hudson Steele looks promisingsecond-up, and for a price Humble andHungry could be a contender.
Finally, the Preakness…I’ve already expressed my lack ofpassion for this field, especially the Derby winner. That said, if the trackplays like it did on Friday with early speed holding, only those who run onpace will have a chance: Bodemeisterand I’ll Have Another, naturally,but also based on prior form, CreativeCause and Cozzetti. Went The Day Well will have to staycloser than he did in the Derby (which he did when he broke his maiden), andeven with the blinkers added Tiger Walkjust has too much drama for me now with the jockey change to Ramon Dominguez.Regardless of his win last out here, I can’t take Pretension seriously based on his prior form. A longshot exoticsplay could be Teeth of the Dog if hetoo stays close early. Bottom line: I’ll be rooting for Creative Cause if Bodemeister fails to fire.
Post time for the G 3 Gallorette is an ungodly 11:30 a.m.,and the next race isn’t until over an hour later? How odd. [edited to add: ah, they ran the G1 Arabians race in between]. Zagora disappointed as the favorite last out in the G1 Jenny Wiley,and I fear she needs more early speed to close into than she’ll get today.Since Javier Castellano sticks with Zagora,Ramon Dominguez picks up the ride on Laughingwho gets a nice 6-pound weight advantage off her foe. She’s a half sister tothe monster Viva Pataca, and has already won going longer—in last June’s NijinskyStakes at Leopardstown, at 200 to 1, no less! I also like Smart Sting here, cutting back and regaining the services of JohnVelazquez.
Not sure I can articulate why exactly, but I love the oldwarrior Ravalo to pop a surprise inthe G3 Maryland Sprint—it looks to be a pretty weak field overall so thuswilling to take a flyer on the old boy [blah, he's scratched!]. The James W. Murphy looks evenlycontested, though, with Easy Crossingshortening up and coming in off a break with Ramon Dominguez aboard forChristophe Clement, a potent combo. The other Clement entry is on the faroutside, Achilles; his dam Solvigwas a dual-G3 winner on turf and lots of quality turfsters in his family, soexpect him to do well moving up in class. Returning to turf should help Gold Megillah, as it should Hammers Terror who finished ahead ofhim in the G3 Lexington last out. For a price, though, I’ll risk some bucks onJimmy Toner trainee Two Months Rentwho just missed against older horses last out. Interestingly, Illinois Derbywinner Done Talking is in here,trying turf for the first time—or maybe he’ll be a scratch when the race stayson turf?
Honestly, I’m ambivalent about the G3 Allaire Dupont, asnone in here particularly thrill me. AbsintheMinded is too irregular in her efforts to inspire confidence, and newshooter Awesomemundo is a bit greenfor my taste. Love and Pride shouldlike shortening up, but I’ll probably risk some on Canadian Mistress off her form against Awesome Maria this year.
The G2 Dixie features CasinoHost coming in off two big wins this year—and there lays the problem. Thenagain, there’s not much in the way of quality turf horses these days in theU.S. so maybe this is the best we get. Oh, how I long for the days of Einstein,Better Talk Now and even Paddy O’Prado! SmartBid won the G3 Fair Grounds Handicap, and then bombed last out. Hudson Steele looks promisingsecond-up, and for a price Humble andHungry could be a contender.
Finally, the Preakness…I’ve already expressed my lack ofpassion for this field, especially the Derby winner. That said, if the trackplays like it did on Friday with early speed holding, only those who run onpace will have a chance: Bodemeisterand I’ll Have Another, naturally,but also based on prior form, CreativeCause and Cozzetti. Went The Day Well will have to staycloser than he did in the Derby (which he did when he broke his maiden), andeven with the blinkers added Tiger Walkjust has too much drama for me now with the jockey change to Ramon Dominguez.Regardless of his win last out here, I can’t take Pretension seriously based on his prior form. A longshot exoticsplay could be Teeth of the Dog if hetoo stays close early. Bottom line: I’ll be rooting for Creative Cause if Bodemeister fails to fire.
How I’m Spending My Summer Vacation
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Being in academia, my summers are usually pretty low-keyaffairs. Lots of home improvement projects mixed with sitting by the pool,playing with the dog, and watching a ton of horse racing. This summer isdifferent. As a rather natural extension of my research on Pittsburgh industrialistsand their role in the high-rise development of downtown Pittsburgh, I fell intoanother topic, fascinating to me and fortunately virtually untouched inacademic circles: the history of horse racing in western Pennsylvania—the breedingand racing of both Thoroughbreds and Standardbreds. For that reason, I’mthrilled to havebeen selected for the 2012-13 John H. Daniels Fellowship at the NationalSporting Library & Museum! For two weeks in late July, I’ll be immersed intheir collection and loving every minute of it.
Why western Pennsylvania? In this frontier region physicallyand culturally isolated from Eastern cities until the mid-19th century, westernPennsylvanians enjoyed the competitive nature of horse racing, with numerous informalcontests held on city streets and farm fields, as well as well-attended eventsat race tracks, driving parks and important agricultural meetings. Newspaperaccounts of the era tell us as much, as do other tangible bits of evidence.Nearly every sizeable town in western Pennsylvania once had a race track or “drivingpark.” Some county fairs (such as those in Butler, Clearfield, Greene, andIndiana counties) still host harness and/or flat racing events, and, of course,we have The Meadows and Presque Isle Downs, but so many more have disappeared. Iintend to not only document these long-gone race tracks (some of which hadsizeable grandstands and other structures), but also examine more thoroughlyhow their lands were repurposed or redeveloped.
Right here in Johnstown there were once two tracks: theTri-County Driving Park Association’s track at Luna Park (built in 1904) is nowthe footprint of Roxbury Park; the Johnstown Driving Park Association built itstrack in Westmont in 1893, and by 1905 it had closed, now forming the streetssurrounding the gracious tree-lined Luzerne Street.
Closer to home, in Washington County, the former MillsboroDriving Park was a 60’ wide half-mile track constructed in 1875 on what islocally known as Sandy Plains. In case you’re interested in a major restorationproject, it’s currentlyfor sale, for $425,000. In my home county of Greene, the Waynesburg Fairand Agricultural Association built a track and grandstand (seating 2,500) in1912 (the track remains, but the old wooden grandstand has been replaced); Ihaven’t yet been able to nail down the construction date for the CarmichaelsFairgrounds, but have found its track record was set by a pacer named Beaut Kennedy in 1911, so it’s at leastthat old.
These are but a few of the many tracks I’m currentlyexploring, and for that I need help. If you or anyone you know has oldphotographs or information about these tracks, please leave me a comment hereor send me an email (see About Me information in right sidebar). I’m basicallyinterested in all the counties west of the Allegheny Mountains: Erie, Crawford,Mercer, Lawrence, Beaver, Washington, Greene, Fayette, Westmoreland, Allegheny,Butler, Venango, Warren, McKean, Forest, Elk, Cameron, Clarion, Jefferson,Clearfield, Armstrong, Indiana, Cambria, Blair, Bedford and Somerset.
In addition to racetracks, the breeding of race horsesoccurred in western Pennsylvania as well. While congressman William LawrenceScott’s late 19th century Algeria Stock Farm in Erie County is wellknown—counting English St. Leger winner Rayond’Or among its important stallions—few realize that as early as 1811, theimported English race horse Honest John(by Derby winner Sir Peter Teazle)stood stud at Morganza in Washington County. In the early 1890s, in Franklin,near Oil City, Prospect Hill Stud Farm bred trotters of such quality thatperiod writers dubbed it the “Palo Alto of the East” in reference to the greatCalifornia stud farm of Governor Leland Stanford. Such information is outsidethe mainstream discussion of American breeding; nevertheless, it is animportant part of the larger picture of breeding history, and certainly therole western Pennsylvania breeders played. It is the intent of my research tohelp fill in the historical gaps, and demonstrate to a contemporary audiencejust how important horse racing once was—and can continue to be—in this part ofthe Commonwealth.
I’m also fascinated by the western Pennsylvanians involvedin the sport, such as Captain Samuel S. Brown, owner of Senorita Stock Farm(now part of Kentucky Horse Park), but also a farm in Bridgeport, nearMonongahela, PA. He won the 1905 Kentucky Derby with Agile, the 1904 Travers with Broomstick,and the 1886 Suburban with Troubadour—andhe made his money as a Pittsburgh industrialist. John W. Galbreath wasn’t aPittsburgher, per se, but as a long-time owner of the Pittsburgh Pirates we’llclaim him as such; synonymous with Darby Dan Farm, he and fellow PittsburgherPaul Mellon (Rokeby Stables) share the rare feat of having captured both theKentucky Derby and the Epsom (English) Derby. How many non-racing fans realizedhow significant Galbreath’s champion Roberto(yes, named after the tragic Pirate great Roberto Clemente) is even in today’sbloodlines? If you haven’t done so before, read my 2009blog post about how Art Rooney Sr.’s talent for playing the ponies helped builta legendary football team. These are but the tip of an iceberg.
There’s also so much more to explore about: jockey DonnaBurnham who rodefor Jim Zimmerman at several race meets at Waynesburg before moving on tothe big time; Hall of Fame harness driver (and Greene County native) Dave Palone; and someonenamed V. J. Reynolds from Waynesburg who, according to the Daily Racing Form in 1910 arrived at Lexington with three2-year-olds and a 3-year-old, with the intent of racing over the Kentuckycircuit. Who was this guy?!? These are the kinds of things I’m fascinated with,which should make for a busy yet enjoyable summer.
Why western Pennsylvania? In this frontier region physicallyand culturally isolated from Eastern cities until the mid-19th century, westernPennsylvanians enjoyed the competitive nature of horse racing, with numerous informalcontests held on city streets and farm fields, as well as well-attended eventsat race tracks, driving parks and important agricultural meetings. Newspaperaccounts of the era tell us as much, as do other tangible bits of evidence.Nearly every sizeable town in western Pennsylvania once had a race track or “drivingpark.” Some county fairs (such as those in Butler, Clearfield, Greene, andIndiana counties) still host harness and/or flat racing events, and, of course,we have The Meadows and Presque Isle Downs, but so many more have disappeared. Iintend to not only document these long-gone race tracks (some of which hadsizeable grandstands and other structures), but also examine more thoroughlyhow their lands were repurposed or redeveloped.
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| Luna Park, c. 1907 |
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| Waynesburg Fairgrounds |
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| Carmichaels Fairgrounds |
In addition to racetracks, the breeding of race horsesoccurred in western Pennsylvania as well. While congressman William LawrenceScott’s late 19th century Algeria Stock Farm in Erie County is wellknown—counting English St. Leger winner Rayond’Or among its important stallions—few realize that as early as 1811, theimported English race horse Honest John(by Derby winner Sir Peter Teazle)stood stud at Morganza in Washington County. In the early 1890s, in Franklin,near Oil City, Prospect Hill Stud Farm bred trotters of such quality thatperiod writers dubbed it the “Palo Alto of the East” in reference to the greatCalifornia stud farm of Governor Leland Stanford. Such information is outsidethe mainstream discussion of American breeding; nevertheless, it is animportant part of the larger picture of breeding history, and certainly therole western Pennsylvania breeders played. It is the intent of my research tohelp fill in the historical gaps, and demonstrate to a contemporary audiencejust how important horse racing once was—and can continue to be—in this part ofthe Commonwealth.
I’m also fascinated by the western Pennsylvanians involvedin the sport, such as Captain Samuel S. Brown, owner of Senorita Stock Farm(now part of Kentucky Horse Park), but also a farm in Bridgeport, nearMonongahela, PA. He won the 1905 Kentucky Derby with Agile, the 1904 Travers with Broomstick,and the 1886 Suburban with Troubadour—andhe made his money as a Pittsburgh industrialist. John W. Galbreath wasn’t aPittsburgher, per se, but as a long-time owner of the Pittsburgh Pirates we’llclaim him as such; synonymous with Darby Dan Farm, he and fellow PittsburgherPaul Mellon (Rokeby Stables) share the rare feat of having captured both theKentucky Derby and the Epsom (English) Derby. How many non-racing fans realizedhow significant Galbreath’s champion Roberto(yes, named after the tragic Pirate great Roberto Clemente) is even in today’sbloodlines? If you haven’t done so before, read my 2009blog post about how Art Rooney Sr.’s talent for playing the ponies helped builta legendary football team. These are but the tip of an iceberg.
There’s also so much more to explore about: jockey DonnaBurnham who rodefor Jim Zimmerman at several race meets at Waynesburg before moving on tothe big time; Hall of Fame harness driver (and Greene County native) Dave Palone; and someonenamed V. J. Reynolds from Waynesburg who, according to the Daily Racing Form in 1910 arrived at Lexington with three2-year-olds and a 3-year-old, with the intent of racing over the Kentuckycircuit. Who was this guy?!? These are the kinds of things I’m fascinated with,which should make for a busy yet enjoyable summer.
Two Hundred Mile Mare
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An article from the July 23, 1873 Washington (PA) Reporter recently caught my attention, asit is particularly demonstrative of the once-love of true staying contestsAmericans appreciated both in flat racing and in harness:
Just as a point of reference, the record for trotting 100miles in harness (8 hours, 55 minutes, 53 seconds) was set by a bay geldingnamed Conqueror, on November 12,1853, at Centerville, Long Island. Inbred to the imported Bellfounder (damsire of the great Hambletonian), Conquerorwas by Latourette’s Bellfounder (byimp. Bellfounder’s son Tremper’sBellfounder) and the imp. Bellfounder’s daughter Lady McClaire.
The article continues:
One point of interest in my own research deals with breedersand owners in western Pennsylvania—their socio-economic positions, theirreligion affiliations, what led them into horse ownership as well as how thatownership profited them, not necessarily financially, but socially and in theirother business (or political) dealings. In other words, did the prestige ofpossessing a good horse aid them in getting ahead? While I haven’t researchedin any further detail Martin Delaney, I did find it interesting that in1875—two years after his mare’s legendary accomplishment—he founded the UnionStock Yards in St. Paul, to aid in transporting the meat from his butcheringbusiness. The owner of her daughter ThePigeon, steamboat captain Barton Atkins left sailing the lakes and became arailroad executive, eventually appointed by President Grover Cleveland as theUnited States marshal for Alaska, a position he held from 1885 to 1889.
Sources:
An article from the July 23, 1873 Washington (PA) Reporter recently caught my attention, asit is particularly demonstrative of the once-love of true staying contestsAmericans appreciated both in flat racing and in harness:
On Wednesday and Thursday, the 14th and 15th of June, theDriving Park at St. Paul, Minnesota, was the scene of an extraordinary trot,Mr. Martin Delaney matching his sorrel mare (a small, full blooded Morgan) totrot two hundred miles in forty-eight hours, for the small take of two hundreddollars. The St. Paul Press says ofthe first day: The trot was commenced yesterday at twenty minutes past fouro’clock a.m., Mr. J. Cummings holding the ribbons. The mare started out at therate of more than ten miles an hour, for the first two hours, and was graduallyslowed to about an average of about ten miles an hour. At five minutes past tenshe had completed the fifty miles, making it in some five hours and forty-fiveminutes. She was then given a rest of three hours and a half, and was startedat a little past one on the second fifty miles. At half past seven she hadcompleted it, having made the first hundred miles in fifteen hours, whichleaves thirty-three hours for the completion of the other hundred. She made thelast mile of her first hundred yesterday, the fastest of any—five and one-halfminutes. Those who witnessed the feat say that the mare showed no sign offatigue, never sweated a hair, and trotted off to the stable to feed at the endof her day’s labor as briskly as though she had just come from the barn.
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| Detail of St. Paul MN Driving Park location, Rice's Map of St. Paul, 1874 |
The article continues:
Wednesday the first one hundred miles was completed, and athalf-past seven o’clock the mare was driven to the stable apparently in as goodcondition as if she had only traveled one quarter of the distance. [OnThursday] morning, when taken out of the barn at five o’clock to complete thetrot, she seemed a little sore at first, but soon warmed up and commenced herday’s work with wonderful ease. At ten o’clock she had completed thirty-onemiles and was withdrawn until four minutes past twelve p.m. After this rest, inwhich she manifested no sign of weariness, she made her next seven miles in onehour and two minutes. No pains were taken to keep an account of her rate ofspeed, but in general terms it averaged during the day about six minutes andfive and one-half seconds per mile for the first fifty miles, and seven minutesand two and one-half seconds for the second fifty miles. After the rest giventhe mare—from seven until nine o’clock in the evening—all parties on the groundsaw that she would make her 200 miles easily. She pursued her even gait, and afew minutes past one o’clock this morning completed the race, making her lastmile in nine minutes and thirty-one seconds. Thus she won the wager, and inthree hours less than the time given her. She trotted off the track seeminglyunconscious of the marvel she had performed.Bred in Vermont and brought to St. Paul via Chicago in 1873,this unnamed 15.2 hand Morgan mare was simply known as the “Two Hundred MileMare.” It was later said, “For endurance and determination she was a mostremarkable animal, capable of taking two men in a buggy fifty miles in fivehours, which feat she performed more than once.” Being so highly regarded, shewas bred to a grandson of Hambletonian,Andrews Burnham (Milwaukee), and in 1875 produced The Pigeon, a brown filly that a writerto Wallace’s Monthly described as “afilly that has developed into an animal of such rare excellence, that thebreeding of the dam has become an object of much interest.”
One point of interest in my own research deals with breedersand owners in western Pennsylvania—their socio-economic positions, theirreligion affiliations, what led them into horse ownership as well as how thatownership profited them, not necessarily financially, but socially and in theirother business (or political) dealings. In other words, did the prestige ofpossessing a good horse aid them in getting ahead? While I haven’t researchedin any further detail Martin Delaney, I did find it interesting that in1875—two years after his mare’s legendary accomplishment—he founded the UnionStock Yards in St. Paul, to aid in transporting the meat from his butcheringbusiness. The owner of her daughter ThePigeon, steamboat captain Barton Atkins left sailing the lakes and became arailroad executive, eventually appointed by President Grover Cleveland as theUnited States marshal for Alaska, a position he held from 1885 to 1889.
Sources:
- “Trotting Two-hundred Miles in Forty-Five Hours” Washington Reporter, July 23, 1873.
- Edward Madden, TheTrotters of Hamburg Place, Lexington, KY (Cleveland: Judson PrintingCompany, 1911) pp. 95-97.
- J. Fletcher Williams, Historyof Ramsey County and the City of St. Paul (Minneapolis: North StarPublishing Company, 1881) pp. 255-256.
- Wallace’s Monthly,vol. VII, no. 3 (April 1881) p. 212.
- John Brandt Mansfield, ed. History of the Great Lakes vol. II (Chicago: J. H. Beers &Company, 1899) pp. 809-812.
Prioress and the Triumph of American Racing
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Only in America would they name a sprint race after a horsebest known for winning what is universally recognized as “asevere stamina test.”
On Saturday at Saratoga, the Grade 1 Prioress will be runfor 3-year-old fillies and if ever a race was misnamed it is this one. Contestedat six furlongs since its inaugural offering in 1948, the Prioress Stakes wasfirst run at Jamaica Race Course, then Aqueduct, followed by Belmont and nowSaratoga. However, the 19th century mare for whom this race is named,royally-bred and part of a tremendously influential family of siblings out ofthe Glencoe mare Reel, will foreverbe remembered as the first American-bred and American-owned horse to win a racein England, the prestigious 2-1/4 mile Cesarewitch Handicap in 1857.
In 2008, Teresa Genaro over at BrooklynBackstretch delved into the New York Timescoverage of Prioress’ Europeancampaign, particularly two letters written by a Newmarket correspondentreacting to her Cesarewitch win by concluding she “is only a very second-rate animal.” At Thoroughbred Heritage,Patricia Erigero elaborates more upon Prioress’career, including the interesting fact that the year following her Cesarewitchwin Prioress dead-heated for secondin the same race, this time carrying 126 lbs., the second highest weight in thefield. During her racing career, she won carrying as much as 140 lbs., althoughshe also failed to win at that weight too, attempted at age 7—and over adistance of three miles. Yes, three miles!
During my recent stint at the National Sporting Library, Iuncovered a fascinating account of Prioress’ Cesarewitch victory in Porter’s Spirit of the Times (vol. III,no. 9, October 31, 1857), the hard-to-find publication edited by William Porterafter he left his position as editor (and co-founder) at the older Spirit of the Times paper; after Porter’sdeath in 1858, it became known as Wilkes’Spirit of the Times. The issue in question featured the race as its coverstory, with an illustration of Prioressdefeating El Hakim and Queen Bess in the run-off racecontested on the same day as the Cesarewitch after the big event ended in atriple dead heat.
The paper reprinted the October 14 London Times race results with a list of all 34competitors, carrying weights ranging 129 lbs. (carried by Fisherman and Warlock,the later only because his jockey was six pounds overweight) to a mere 66 lbs(carried by the 3-year-old fillies WildHoney and Queen Bess). Can youimagine a 66-pound jockey?!? The 3-year-old colt El Hakim carried 93 lbs, as did 4-year-old Prioress. The betting public favored 3-year-old colt M. Dobler at 4-1, with El Hakim second choice at 8-1; Queen Bess was 30-1, while the Americaninvader Prioress went to post at100-1.
Porter’s reporter, coyly known only as “Don John,” sets thescene thusly:
Imagine the wideexpanse of that noblest race track in the world (or rather series of tracks),embracing many miles of mossy turf, with thousands of spectators from all partsof the United Kingdom, and Continental Europe, assembled to witness the great andall-engrossing struggle for the Cesarewitch; and then conceive, if you can, thefeverish anxiety manifested, when no less than thirty-four thorough-bred horsesappeared, saddled for the fray, their several jockeys attired in all the gloryof silk and satin of the rainbow’s hues, whilst the animals they bestroderepresented the flower of English racing chivalry—the large majority of themhaving previously won honor and renown in many a well-contested field, whilstof the small minority of candidates for Turf honors, high hopes wereentertained by their friends and owners. It was an array to make the eyebrighten, the pulse quicken, and the whole frame to quiver with excitement, asthe gallant squadron passed in review, prior to wheeling into line for thatgrand charge, the result of which was awaited with so much anxiety, and whichwould bring joy to some, and the confusion of defeat to others; whilst,causing, perhaps, a couple of millions of dollars to change owners in a fewshort moments. Can you wonder that, although hastily scanning with eager eyethe form and condition of each other candidate, I gave a long and lingeringgaze to the gallant mare who was the sole representative of America; or that,as she passed down the track, I wished her “God speed” on the journeyhomewards, and then resigned myself to fate.
I love his description of the start:
The starter, flag inhand, gathered his noble field of horses together, and after one or two attempts,brought them to a stand still line. In a moment the red signal fell, and awaythey went, helter-skelter, like a cluster of bees, close together, for the dashof two and a quarter miles, the start being a beautiful and most effective one.
After the start, Prioresssettled mid-pack with El Hakim,while Queen Bess battled for theearly lead. As the correspondent notes, “at the Bushes the pace began to tell”and Queen Bess took the clear leadwith Prioress and El Hakim joining her as they descendedthe hill and approached the cords. ElHakim was at Queen Bess’ neck,while Prioress is described as “runningby herself on the far side.” As the correspondent notes:
One of the mostexciting Cesarewitch finishes ever seen then ensured. Prioress, half way up thecords, seemed to be about coming in alone, but the tiny jockeys of El Hakim andQueen Bess made a determined set to, and the judge, unable to separate thefirst three, pronounced a dead heat.
They finished the 18-furlong event in a time of 4:09.
What happened next is an extraordinary thing—a deciding heatof another 2-1/4 miles “run after the last race in a deepeningtwilight, which rendered it impossible to distinguish the colors of the ridersat a distance.” Our intrepid correspondent reports:
El Hakim was firstoff, but after going about fifty yards, Prioress, overpowering [her jockey]Fordham, rushed to the front, and carried on the running to the ditch gap,where she was pulled back, and lay about three lengths in the rear, Queen Bessgoing on with the lead, closely attended by El Hakim. On coming down the Busheshill, Prioress hung to the left, and a shout was raised of “the American’sbeaten!” But Fordham roused the mare with his whip, and before reaching thefoot of the hill she bore her colors in advance, and quitting her opponents half-wayup the cords, won cleverly by a length and a half; El Hakim beating Queen Bessby a head only for second place. A loud and prolonged cheer hailed the triumphof the American colors, and [owner] Mr. Ten Broeck was warmly congratulatedupon the first victory achieved by him in England.
The “second” Cesarewitch of 1857 was concluded in 4:15, and,interestingly, the very next day Mr. Richard Ten Broeck won his second race onEnglish soil, the Bedford Stakes with his 2-year-old filly Belle, also ridden by Fordham.
However, it was Prioress’victory that had all of America gloating. Porter’sSpirit of the Times declared it a “Victory of America Over All England” andwithin its historical context, this race marked a key moment in Americanracing. Think of it, sending a horse—via pre-Civil War means of transportation—abroad to race inthe country where the sport of thoroughbred racing first began, not to mentionthe country from which the United States had but relatively recently acquiredits independence. Even today, other than the outstandingly-sporting Kenneth andSarah Ramsey, it’s rare for American horses to ship abroad (other than for thelucrative Dubai World Cup races). So, Richard Ten Broeck’s English invasionmarked a significant event.
As John Dizikes notes in his book Sportsmen and Gamesmen, American racing of the 1850s occurred ondirt tracks that were oval in shape and run in a counterclockwise manner, muchdifferent from the grassy, irregular meandering courses found in England wherecontestants ran to “the Right.” Also, as Dizikes rightly contends, “English horsemen took the traditional viewthat the race was against the competition and not the clock.” (p. 129). So,fundamentally, American racing had diverged from whence it first emerged, andits proponents sought to promote its legitimacy by taking on the staid Englishtraditionalists on their own turf. For that reason alone, the Americans hadreason to celebrate, and Porter’s correspondent led the cheer:
Victory! Victory!Victory! a plain, straightforward, honest victory at last; not the victory of amatch race between horse and horse, but the victory of America over allEngland, in the greatest handicap race of the English racing year. Thelegitimate triumph of “Young America” over “Old England,” the defeat of theflower of English racing stock by the American mare Prioress, is the feat Ihave to record—a feat which obliterates the memory of previous disasters, andcompensates for all the disappointments to which American sporting men—proud oftheir native land, and firmly convinced of the equality at least of theAmerican with the English horse—have been subjected.
We have been accusedof being a nation of boasters; our vaunted equality as breeders and trainers ofrace-horses has been laughed at; our debut at Goodwood, with animals out of allform and condition, enabled our victors to sneer at our puny efforts, as theydescribed them, whilst our subsequent appearances elsewhere have beensynonymous with defeat. It is now our turn to smile. We have beaten the Englishat their own game; and they are now content to admit that we had reasons andcogent ones, for the ground we took at starting, and that, with health andcondition on our side, we were at least their equals. They expressed a desirethat we should win one race, at least, in reward of the “pluck” and spirit wehad displayed in sending horses across the wide Atlantic to compete with them.We have gratified that desire, and carried off the richest prize that was opento our competition; a prize far superior, in both intrinsic value and as aracing test, to the much-coveted Goodwood Cup, and a prize of which we mayjustly feel proud. As we bore defeat after defeat with meekness, confident inour strength, and that the time would inevitably come, when a victory worthy ofus would be ours, so let us bear ourselves in the hour of legitimate triumph.
That’s why Prioress meant so much historically, regardlessof her overall career, failure as a broodmare and early death—and why a meresprint race 155 years later fittingly celebrates our racing history for a change.
Note:
John Dizikes’s chapter on “Richard Ten Broeck and theAmerican Invasion” pp. 124-157, in his Sportsmenand Gamesmen: From the Years that Shaped American Ideas about Winning andLosing and How to Play the Game (Houghton Mifflin, 1981; reprinted Universityof Missouri Press, 2002) is well worth reading as an informative study of mid-19thcentury American horse racing—the societal context of the sport as well as thesubculture formed within it. It’s available free via Google Books here.
Only in America would they name a sprint race after a horsebest known for winning what is universally recognized as “asevere stamina test.”
![]() |
| From Porter's Spirit of the Times, October 31, 1857 |
In 2008, Teresa Genaro over at BrooklynBackstretch delved into the New York Timescoverage of Prioress’ Europeancampaign, particularly two letters written by a Newmarket correspondentreacting to her Cesarewitch win by concluding she “is only a very second-rate animal.” At Thoroughbred Heritage,Patricia Erigero elaborates more upon Prioress’career, including the interesting fact that the year following her Cesarewitchwin Prioress dead-heated for secondin the same race, this time carrying 126 lbs., the second highest weight in thefield. During her racing career, she won carrying as much as 140 lbs., althoughshe also failed to win at that weight too, attempted at age 7—and over adistance of three miles. Yes, three miles!
During my recent stint at the National Sporting Library, Iuncovered a fascinating account of Prioress’ Cesarewitch victory in Porter’s Spirit of the Times (vol. III,no. 9, October 31, 1857), the hard-to-find publication edited by William Porterafter he left his position as editor (and co-founder) at the older Spirit of the Times paper; after Porter’sdeath in 1858, it became known as Wilkes’Spirit of the Times. The issue in question featured the race as its coverstory, with an illustration of Prioressdefeating El Hakim and Queen Bess in the run-off racecontested on the same day as the Cesarewitch after the big event ended in atriple dead heat.
The paper reprinted the October 14 London Times race results with a list of all 34competitors, carrying weights ranging 129 lbs. (carried by Fisherman and Warlock,the later only because his jockey was six pounds overweight) to a mere 66 lbs(carried by the 3-year-old fillies WildHoney and Queen Bess). Can youimagine a 66-pound jockey?!? The 3-year-old colt El Hakim carried 93 lbs, as did 4-year-old Prioress. The betting public favored 3-year-old colt M. Dobler at 4-1, with El Hakim second choice at 8-1; Queen Bess was 30-1, while the Americaninvader Prioress went to post at100-1.
Porter’s reporter, coyly known only as “Don John,” sets thescene thusly:
Imagine the wideexpanse of that noblest race track in the world (or rather series of tracks),embracing many miles of mossy turf, with thousands of spectators from all partsof the United Kingdom, and Continental Europe, assembled to witness the great andall-engrossing struggle for the Cesarewitch; and then conceive, if you can, thefeverish anxiety manifested, when no less than thirty-four thorough-bred horsesappeared, saddled for the fray, their several jockeys attired in all the gloryof silk and satin of the rainbow’s hues, whilst the animals they bestroderepresented the flower of English racing chivalry—the large majority of themhaving previously won honor and renown in many a well-contested field, whilstof the small minority of candidates for Turf honors, high hopes wereentertained by their friends and owners. It was an array to make the eyebrighten, the pulse quicken, and the whole frame to quiver with excitement, asthe gallant squadron passed in review, prior to wheeling into line for thatgrand charge, the result of which was awaited with so much anxiety, and whichwould bring joy to some, and the confusion of defeat to others; whilst,causing, perhaps, a couple of millions of dollars to change owners in a fewshort moments. Can you wonder that, although hastily scanning with eager eyethe form and condition of each other candidate, I gave a long and lingeringgaze to the gallant mare who was the sole representative of America; or that,as she passed down the track, I wished her “God speed” on the journeyhomewards, and then resigned myself to fate.
I love his description of the start:
The starter, flag inhand, gathered his noble field of horses together, and after one or two attempts,brought them to a stand still line. In a moment the red signal fell, and awaythey went, helter-skelter, like a cluster of bees, close together, for the dashof two and a quarter miles, the start being a beautiful and most effective one.
After the start, Prioresssettled mid-pack with El Hakim,while Queen Bess battled for theearly lead. As the correspondent notes, “at the Bushes the pace began to tell”and Queen Bess took the clear leadwith Prioress and El Hakim joining her as they descendedthe hill and approached the cords. ElHakim was at Queen Bess’ neck,while Prioress is described as “runningby herself on the far side.” As the correspondent notes:
One of the mostexciting Cesarewitch finishes ever seen then ensured. Prioress, half way up thecords, seemed to be about coming in alone, but the tiny jockeys of El Hakim andQueen Bess made a determined set to, and the judge, unable to separate thefirst three, pronounced a dead heat.
They finished the 18-furlong event in a time of 4:09.
What happened next is an extraordinary thing—a deciding heatof another 2-1/4 miles “run after the last race in a deepeningtwilight, which rendered it impossible to distinguish the colors of the ridersat a distance.” Our intrepid correspondent reports:
El Hakim was firstoff, but after going about fifty yards, Prioress, overpowering [her jockey]Fordham, rushed to the front, and carried on the running to the ditch gap,where she was pulled back, and lay about three lengths in the rear, Queen Bessgoing on with the lead, closely attended by El Hakim. On coming down the Busheshill, Prioress hung to the left, and a shout was raised of “the American’sbeaten!” But Fordham roused the mare with his whip, and before reaching thefoot of the hill she bore her colors in advance, and quitting her opponents half-wayup the cords, won cleverly by a length and a half; El Hakim beating Queen Bessby a head only for second place. A loud and prolonged cheer hailed the triumphof the American colors, and [owner] Mr. Ten Broeck was warmly congratulatedupon the first victory achieved by him in England.
The “second” Cesarewitch of 1857 was concluded in 4:15, and,interestingly, the very next day Mr. Richard Ten Broeck won his second race onEnglish soil, the Bedford Stakes with his 2-year-old filly Belle, also ridden by Fordham.
However, it was Prioress’victory that had all of America gloating. Porter’sSpirit of the Times declared it a “Victory of America Over All England” andwithin its historical context, this race marked a key moment in Americanracing. Think of it, sending a horse—via pre-Civil War means of transportation—abroad to race inthe country where the sport of thoroughbred racing first began, not to mentionthe country from which the United States had but relatively recently acquiredits independence. Even today, other than the outstandingly-sporting Kenneth andSarah Ramsey, it’s rare for American horses to ship abroad (other than for thelucrative Dubai World Cup races). So, Richard Ten Broeck’s English invasionmarked a significant event.
As John Dizikes notes in his book Sportsmen and Gamesmen, American racing of the 1850s occurred ondirt tracks that were oval in shape and run in a counterclockwise manner, muchdifferent from the grassy, irregular meandering courses found in England wherecontestants ran to “the Right.” Also, as Dizikes rightly contends, “English horsemen took the traditional viewthat the race was against the competition and not the clock.” (p. 129). So,fundamentally, American racing had diverged from whence it first emerged, andits proponents sought to promote its legitimacy by taking on the staid Englishtraditionalists on their own turf. For that reason alone, the Americans hadreason to celebrate, and Porter’s correspondent led the cheer:
Victory! Victory!Victory! a plain, straightforward, honest victory at last; not the victory of amatch race between horse and horse, but the victory of America over allEngland, in the greatest handicap race of the English racing year. Thelegitimate triumph of “Young America” over “Old England,” the defeat of theflower of English racing stock by the American mare Prioress, is the feat Ihave to record—a feat which obliterates the memory of previous disasters, andcompensates for all the disappointments to which American sporting men—proud oftheir native land, and firmly convinced of the equality at least of theAmerican with the English horse—have been subjected.
We have been accusedof being a nation of boasters; our vaunted equality as breeders and trainers ofrace-horses has been laughed at; our debut at Goodwood, with animals out of allform and condition, enabled our victors to sneer at our puny efforts, as theydescribed them, whilst our subsequent appearances elsewhere have beensynonymous with defeat. It is now our turn to smile. We have beaten the Englishat their own game; and they are now content to admit that we had reasons andcogent ones, for the ground we took at starting, and that, with health andcondition on our side, we were at least their equals. They expressed a desirethat we should win one race, at least, in reward of the “pluck” and spirit wehad displayed in sending horses across the wide Atlantic to compete with them.We have gratified that desire, and carried off the richest prize that was opento our competition; a prize far superior, in both intrinsic value and as aracing test, to the much-coveted Goodwood Cup, and a prize of which we mayjustly feel proud. As we bore defeat after defeat with meekness, confident inour strength, and that the time would inevitably come, when a victory worthy ofus would be ours, so let us bear ourselves in the hour of legitimate triumph.
That’s why Prioress meant so much historically, regardlessof her overall career, failure as a broodmare and early death—and why a meresprint race 155 years later fittingly celebrates our racing history for a change.
Note:
John Dizikes’s chapter on “Richard Ten Broeck and theAmerican Invasion” pp. 124-157, in his Sportsmenand Gamesmen: From the Years that Shaped American Ideas about Winning andLosing and How to Play the Game (Houghton Mifflin, 1981; reprinted Universityof Missouri Press, 2002) is well worth reading as an informative study of mid-19thcentury American horse racing—the societal context of the sport as well as thesubculture formed within it. It’s available free via Google Books here.
29 Eylül 2012 Cumartesi
Baby Girl Mild-with-a-W, Sister to Lincoln, Grant, and Eli
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S. writes:
It looks to me as if your list is nearly wiped out: there's a good reason not to use every name on the list except Celeste. It can be easy in a situation like this to keep going around in circles.
What I'd do in your shoes is brainstorm a fresh list based on your current list. For example, you like Olivia and Naomi, so you could look for other names with strong O sounds such as Sophia, Fiona, Chloe, Carolina, Rose. Or Naomi might make me think of Miriam, because they're both biblical and have similar sounds, or it might make me think of Ruth.
The new list might or might not be of names for actual consideration (if Claire is too popular, Chloe and Sophia likely are too; if you worry about avoiding Katie, you might worry about avoiding Rosie too), but more to freshen things up and maybe lead to new ideas and a new list ("Hm, I don't much like Bronwyn or Wynne with the surname, but those remind me of Bridget and Brenna!").
Gwen and Evie make me think of Genevieve. It still repeats an initial, but I don't think you'll confuse the two names.
Or if you want the nickname Evie, I might go straight to Eve---though Eve and Eli do seem too similar to me, as Evie and Eli do. (Lilah and Layla, too.)
Claire makes me think of Clara, Cora, Carys, Laurel, Meredith, Nora, Rose.
Gwen makes me think of Wren, Wynne, Rowan, Winifred, Bronwyn, Elowen, Brynn, Zoe, Gwyneth.
Kate makes me think of Lane, Jane, June, Faith, Hazel, Jade, Maeve, Paige, Tate, Faye, Grey.
Evie makes me think of Neve, Vivienne, Liana, Eleni.
Phoebe makes me think of Penelope, Chloe, Cleo, Fiona, Sophia, Beatrix, Philippa, Josephine, Daphne.
Naomi makes me think of Noelle, Miriam, Ruth, Nadia, Esther, Leah, Claudia, Delaney, Rose, Fiona, Romilly, Romy, Mina, Mira.
Olivia makes me think Livianna, Fiona, Sophia, Chloe, Felicity, Victoria, Violet, Vivienne, Genevieve, Silvia, Orianna, Evelina.
Or else I'd go with Celeste. I think it's great with your surname and with the sibling names.
I came across your blog a couple of months ago and have loved reading your ideas and opinions on baby names. We are due to have our first baby girl the end of October! We currently have 3 boys which we love and adore, but are thrilled to be adding some PINK to our bunch. We are having one crazy time with choosing a name that will be just right.
Our boys' names are Lincoln Judd, Grant Perry, and Eli Daren. Their first names are names we liked and their middle names are family names. Our last name sounds like mild, but starts with a W. We would like this baby's name to "go with" her brothers.
Had this baby been another boy we would have likely named him Jude Jacobs, Jonah Jacobs, or Noah Jacobs. But since we've found out that this baby is a girl, we have not been able to settle on names that we both love.
We like very gender specific names that are recognizable, but not too commonly used. We're not too much into the nicknames and generally like the given name to be what they are called, although that's not a deal breaker. With this baby my husband and I seem to have very different likes! I would love to have an outside neutral opinion to help sort my thoughts of what sounds good and not...here are some of the names one or both of us are considering...
- Gwen - I like it, but not sure if I want to repeat an initial...would it be too different of a sound with Grant and we'd end up calling him Gwant?! Does Gwen sound right with our last name?
- Claire - I like it, but worry that it's getting too popular
- Kate - I like it as a name by itself...I don't like the possibility of her being called Katie
- Evie (Ee-vee)...possibly Evelyn as the given name - This is my husband's favorite. I worry that Evie can't be a given name and that Evie is too similar sounding to Eli.
- Celeste - I like it but don't know that it really goes with the boys' names
- Phoebe - I love this! My husband does not.
- Naomi - I love this! My husband does not. There's a negative association with this name for him.
- Olivia - I like it but don't like that there is a famous actor/model with the same name (first and last)
The rest of these names one or both of us like...we're just not so sure...
- Charlotte
- Adalyn
- Marlee
- Lilah
- Layla
- Lydia
Most likely the middle name, if there were one, would be Lyn or Elizabeth...again family names.
Please share your thoughts and advise. Baby Girl is due in just a few weeks and I feel like we're ready, except for a name! I'd love to hear what you think...or any other names that you think might "go with" our other children's names.
Many, many thanks!!!
It looks to me as if your list is nearly wiped out: there's a good reason not to use every name on the list except Celeste. It can be easy in a situation like this to keep going around in circles.
What I'd do in your shoes is brainstorm a fresh list based on your current list. For example, you like Olivia and Naomi, so you could look for other names with strong O sounds such as Sophia, Fiona, Chloe, Carolina, Rose. Or Naomi might make me think of Miriam, because they're both biblical and have similar sounds, or it might make me think of Ruth.
The new list might or might not be of names for actual consideration (if Claire is too popular, Chloe and Sophia likely are too; if you worry about avoiding Katie, you might worry about avoiding Rosie too), but more to freshen things up and maybe lead to new ideas and a new list ("Hm, I don't much like Bronwyn or Wynne with the surname, but those remind me of Bridget and Brenna!").
Gwen and Evie make me think of Genevieve. It still repeats an initial, but I don't think you'll confuse the two names.
Or if you want the nickname Evie, I might go straight to Eve---though Eve and Eli do seem too similar to me, as Evie and Eli do. (Lilah and Layla, too.)
Claire makes me think of Clara, Cora, Carys, Laurel, Meredith, Nora, Rose.
Gwen makes me think of Wren, Wynne, Rowan, Winifred, Bronwyn, Elowen, Brynn, Zoe, Gwyneth.
Kate makes me think of Lane, Jane, June, Faith, Hazel, Jade, Maeve, Paige, Tate, Faye, Grey.
Evie makes me think of Neve, Vivienne, Liana, Eleni.
Phoebe makes me think of Penelope, Chloe, Cleo, Fiona, Sophia, Beatrix, Philippa, Josephine, Daphne.
Naomi makes me think of Noelle, Miriam, Ruth, Nadia, Esther, Leah, Claudia, Delaney, Rose, Fiona, Romilly, Romy, Mina, Mira.
Olivia makes me think Livianna, Fiona, Sophia, Chloe, Felicity, Victoria, Violet, Vivienne, Genevieve, Silvia, Orianna, Evelina.
Or else I'd go with Celeste. I think it's great with your surname and with the sibling names.
Baby Girl Wilson, Sister to Micah and Madelyn; Does It Have to be Another M Name?
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Linsey writes:
It doesn't have to be an M name, but I see the pressure for it to be one. I think if you don't use an M name, there may be a little whining about it at first from friends and family, but that it isn't likely to be a big deal in the long run: hardly anyone cares very deeply what other people name their children, even if they enjoy making a bit of a fuss about it in the anticipation stage. If the third child doesn't have any reason to believe that he or she was deliberately not given an M name in order to exclude him or her, and if you answer any questions with, "For each child, we just chose the name we liked best," then two M names in a row doesn't seem like enough names to establish an unbreakable theme. If, however, you LIKE another M name, then I think it is a fun theme to have.
Normally I might avoid matching endings for two names, but Evelyn seems like a great way to tie the names together without using another M name, and the front halves of the names have such different sounds. However, I don't think I'd then use such similar middle names on top of that. If you wanted to please the people clamoring for a matched set, you could do Evelyn Jane: she'd tie in to her sister's first name and both siblings' middle names.
Evelyn is quite popular (#24 in 2011, according to the Social Security Administration, and continuing to rise), but the name Madelyn/Madeline/Madilyn/Madeleine is so popular (combining spellings puts it into the Top Ten), the similar popularity of Evelyn is a selling point for me.
Katelyn would also work, but is perhaps too strong a sister-name tie since it connects to both the first name and the middle name.
Jocelyn would work well.
Marilee seems like it honors neither grandmother (it's particularly hard to imagine the family of a Lezlie feeling any honor from it), while also leading to spelling issues and Merrily puns. On the other hand, I do think people would be touched by the effort to combine the grandmothers' names, and Merrily is a very cheerful sort of pun. If you use it, I think Marilee Jane would be pretty, or Marilee June, or Marilee Rose, or Marilee Celeste.
I'd like to segue into recommending Meredith, but I think the repeating M and D sounds probably make it too similar to Madelyn.
Mallory might be better. It's uncommon but familiar. It does repeat the L and Y of Madelyn, but in a very different way. Micah, Madelyn, and Mallory.
More M possibilities:
Maeve
Maia/Maya
Margaret
Maribel
Mariel
Marissa
Matilda
Mina
Mira
Molly
Molly is the traditional nickname for Mary, if that would be a slight and pleasing connection to one of the grandmothers. Perhaps the other grandmother's middle name could be used. Or I see that the name Lezlie/Leslie/Lesley is derived from the surname Lesslyn, which might make a good middle name with a parallel slight connection. Micah James, Madelyn Kate, and Molly Lesslyn. If that's too rhymey with Wilson, maybe Lynn would be better---though by now we're so far removed from the honor name, I think I'd just choose something you like: Molly Jane, maybe, or Molly Kit, or Molly Joy.
Our baby girl (third and last child) is due in just a few months and we need your help! My first question is: Does it have to be an "M" name?? Our four year old son is named Micah James and our two year old daughter is named Madelyn Kate (husband and I are James and Linsey, FYI). Family and friends are insisting that we have to stick with the "M" theme we have going or this baby will be "left out". I understand what they mean as most of the names that I like that don't start with an "M" just don't seem to go with Micah and Madelyn. I really don't have a problem using an "M" name except that the girl's names we like at all are extremely popular. With the last name Wilson we don't want anything too very popular. Micah and Madelyn are actually pushing it. Can you suggest some "M" girl's names that compliment Micah and Madelyn without being too common?
One name that my husband and I both love is Evelyn. It's my grandmother's middle name and sounds similar to Madelyn. Does that make it seem like a name that fits in with our family or is it too similar to Madelyn? We've talked about using my mother's middle name so that would make Micah James, Madelyn Kate, and Evelyn Kit. Are the girl's names just too similar? Or does Evelyn stick out like a sore thumb? And is Evelyn gaining popularity too quickly to go with a common name like Wilson?
Another thought is that both my mother and my husband's mother passed away before we got married. We of course would love to honor them in our naming, but didn't end up doing so with our first daughter because we just don't necessarily care for either the name Mary or the name Lezlie. One name that I've recently run across is Marilee. This kind of sounds like a combination of Mary and Lezlie and of course starts with an "M" like our other two children. What do you think of it? What middle name to you think would work well with it?
Any other name suggestions you have would be much appreciated!
Thanks So Much!
It doesn't have to be an M name, but I see the pressure for it to be one. I think if you don't use an M name, there may be a little whining about it at first from friends and family, but that it isn't likely to be a big deal in the long run: hardly anyone cares very deeply what other people name their children, even if they enjoy making a bit of a fuss about it in the anticipation stage. If the third child doesn't have any reason to believe that he or she was deliberately not given an M name in order to exclude him or her, and if you answer any questions with, "For each child, we just chose the name we liked best," then two M names in a row doesn't seem like enough names to establish an unbreakable theme. If, however, you LIKE another M name, then I think it is a fun theme to have.
Normally I might avoid matching endings for two names, but Evelyn seems like a great way to tie the names together without using another M name, and the front halves of the names have such different sounds. However, I don't think I'd then use such similar middle names on top of that. If you wanted to please the people clamoring for a matched set, you could do Evelyn Jane: she'd tie in to her sister's first name and both siblings' middle names.
Evelyn is quite popular (#24 in 2011, according to the Social Security Administration, and continuing to rise), but the name Madelyn/Madeline/Madilyn/Madeleine is so popular (combining spellings puts it into the Top Ten), the similar popularity of Evelyn is a selling point for me.
Katelyn would also work, but is perhaps too strong a sister-name tie since it connects to both the first name and the middle name.
Jocelyn would work well.
Marilee seems like it honors neither grandmother (it's particularly hard to imagine the family of a Lezlie feeling any honor from it), while also leading to spelling issues and Merrily puns. On the other hand, I do think people would be touched by the effort to combine the grandmothers' names, and Merrily is a very cheerful sort of pun. If you use it, I think Marilee Jane would be pretty, or Marilee June, or Marilee Rose, or Marilee Celeste.
I'd like to segue into recommending Meredith, but I think the repeating M and D sounds probably make it too similar to Madelyn.
Mallory might be better. It's uncommon but familiar. It does repeat the L and Y of Madelyn, but in a very different way. Micah, Madelyn, and Mallory.
More M possibilities:
Maeve
Maia/Maya
Margaret
Maribel
Mariel
Marissa
Matilda
Mina
Mira
Molly
Molly is the traditional nickname for Mary, if that would be a slight and pleasing connection to one of the grandmothers. Perhaps the other grandmother's middle name could be used. Or I see that the name Lezlie/Leslie/Lesley is derived from the surname Lesslyn, which might make a good middle name with a parallel slight connection. Micah James, Madelyn Kate, and Molly Lesslyn. If that's too rhymey with Wilson, maybe Lynn would be better---though by now we're so far removed from the honor name, I think I'd just choose something you like: Molly Jane, maybe, or Molly Kit, or Molly Joy.
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28 Eylül 2012 Cuma
Baby Name to Consider: Hooper
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Bea writes:
I was very surprised to go to the Social Security Administration data base and not find the name Hooper AT ALL in the 2011 stats. (Names are only in the data base if they're given to at least 5 girls or at least 5 boys, so this means Hooper was used 0-4 times.) Cooper, for comparison, was given to 5,140 new baby boys and 106 new baby girls in 2011.
In 2010, there were 5 new baby boys named Hooper. In 2009, it's not in the data base. In 2008, there were 6 new baby boys named Hooper. Why so low?
I could see people being turned away by the Hooper/pooper rhyme---but the name Cooper has the exact same issue and is nevertheless fairly common: #82 in 2011.
Could it be that Hooper has too strong an association with...basketball hoops? Or with Hoosiers? But it seems like those could just as easily be positive as negative, and Cooper has a similar association with chicken coops.
Or is it that it sounds too much like the word whoop? Maybe it's Cooper's strong leading consonant sound that makes it more useable.
My primary association with Hooper is Mr. Hooper's store on Sesame Street. For me, it's a strong positive association.
Let's have a poll over to the right to see what everyone else thinks.
I have been mulling over the name Hooper for the last little while and wondering if it is a name people would consider. It has so many things that are trending for it right now. It is a surname, which is ever popular right now. It also comes from the big book of medieval professions and matches names like Tanner and Cooper. It has also got the "er" ending. It has so many things going for it, but could it really catch on? I have a feeling that "Hooper Pooper" would taunt the child too much to make anyone consider it. I can't decide if I like it or if I would even consider it for one my own boys. What do you think?
I was very surprised to go to the Social Security Administration data base and not find the name Hooper AT ALL in the 2011 stats. (Names are only in the data base if they're given to at least 5 girls or at least 5 boys, so this means Hooper was used 0-4 times.) Cooper, for comparison, was given to 5,140 new baby boys and 106 new baby girls in 2011.
In 2010, there were 5 new baby boys named Hooper. In 2009, it's not in the data base. In 2008, there were 6 new baby boys named Hooper. Why so low?
I could see people being turned away by the Hooper/pooper rhyme---but the name Cooper has the exact same issue and is nevertheless fairly common: #82 in 2011.
Could it be that Hooper has too strong an association with...basketball hoops? Or with Hoosiers? But it seems like those could just as easily be positive as negative, and Cooper has a similar association with chicken coops.
Or is it that it sounds too much like the word whoop? Maybe it's Cooper's strong leading consonant sound that makes it more useable.
My primary association with Hooper is Mr. Hooper's store on Sesame Street. For me, it's a strong positive association.
Let's have a poll over to the right to see what everyone else thinks.
Baby Girl Zebraitis, Sister to Hudson and Miles
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Abbey writes:
Currently the name Nico is used much more often for boys than for girls in the United States: the Social Security Administration reports 522 new baby boys and 35 new baby girls named Nico in 2011. It seems like a cute choice for a girl if I say it again and again, a name like Mia or Nicki. But if I saw it on a piece of paper, or in a sibling group with a Hudson and a Miles, I'd assume Nico was a boy---not like, "I wonder if that's a boy or a girl? More likely a boy," but rather in the same way I'd assume Hudson and Miles were boys. There is nothing inherently wrong with choosing a more-often-used-for-boys name for a girl or vice versa, but I think of it as the kind of choice that needs extra thought.
It's hard to know what to advise here. I can throw my full support behind the idea of June with grandmother middle names, which seems perfect to me---but I can't picture that endorsement making your husband think, "Oh! Well, okay then, I'm happy with the name June!" Even if we had a poll and we ALL voted for June (and of course not all of us would), you two are the only real voters.
It would be best if we could find a way to make a better offer, more like a compromise that lets your husband keep his choice without forcing you to use it as the first name---something like using Nico as the middle name, or using Nico as a nickname: June to Junie to Nico? It's not traditional or intuitive, but these are desperate times.
I'm afraid that what usually happens in cases where each parent has committed to a favorite the other parent can't agree to is that both parents have to drop their choices and find something new: for most of us, it's too hard to go through the heartbreak of giving up a favorite name AND then agree to the other parent's favorite. If it does come down to starting from scratch, you'll need to both make sure you're not thinking of the task as "Finding a name I like better than Nico/June," but instead as "Finding a name we can agree on from all the names that remain."
One possibility for compromise is the name Annika. It lacks the simplicity of June, but it's more feminine and flexible than Nico, and A.Z. are very cute initials. And it certainly has room for the nickname Niko or Nika; your husband could call her that exclusively, if he liked. Annika June is lovely.
Veronica and Danica could work the same way.
Or Cleo has some of the sound of Nico, while being more feminine.
Juno may be too associated with movies and goddesses, but it's like a hybrid of June and Nico.
My husband and I never see eye-to-eye on baby names. I always knew I wanted Hudson, so that one was a given from our first date. We picked his middle name, Dean, as an homage to Dean Martin, a favorite singer of both my husband and his father. My husband also initially suggested Miles, but then he moved on to other favorite names, and I wanted Miles, so it was "my pick" again. His middle name, Taylor, is in honor of Taylor, Michigan, where my husband grew up.
So now, we are finally having a baby girl, and this may very well be our last baby! We are completely gridlocked, since we both feel like we have The Perfect Name. I'm desperate for some input, and maybe, more suggestions, since we're stuck and this is getting really stressful and emotional. We've been working our way down the Social Security list and trying to add names, but it's hard.
My husband suggested years ago that if we had a girl, we should name her Nico, and at first, I must say, I adored it. We both love The Velvet Underground, and it seemed like such a cool, unique, strong name. I mentioned it to a friend recently, and she said it was a "total rock star" name. Her middle name would be June, in honor of my maternal grandmother, who passed away 2 years before I was born. I thought that gave it a nice feminine touch, and would allow her to use the more feminine June as a first name if she decided that Nico was too much to deal with it.
Sadly, I am now really concerned about using Nico. It has started to sound more like a weird name than a strong, cool name to me: Nico Zebraitis. I mean, how much are people really going to call her Nico June? I don't want her to be a Nicky or a Nic, either. I already have to spell my surname for strangers all the time, and I think she'd be constantly spelling and explaining Nico, too. It also reminds me of nicotine and rhymes with geek-o, freak-o...you get the picture. Another friend remarked that it made her picture a vacationing with a swarthy man named Nico on a Greek island. I am just having a hard time even liking it anymore, much less loving it, but hubs is so smitten with it, I feel like it will be so hard for him not to use it.
A few weeks ago, I loved Juniper, and I still do, but hubs doesn't. And I have to admit, Juniper Zebraitis is also a pretty tough name, weird even. I began to think that what I want for my daughter is a name that's simple but unusual, that everyone will immediately recognize and know how to spell, but that isn't currently in popular use as a first name, something uber-feminine, soft, and classic. Suddenly, I realized that she was trying to tell me what her name was all along, (see, I'm obviously emotional and smitten with my name choice, gah!), ever since I came home from taking the pregnancy test at the doctor's on my birthday, and played The Decemberists' "June Hymn" over and over on the way home. We should name her June. And we could give her the first names of the 3 of our grandmothers who meant the most to us: June Estelle Liudvika Zebraitis. June is a popular middle name choice, but not for first names at all.
Liudvika was my husband's grandmother, who raised him, and he would have used this as a first name choice. His name is Vitas, and he has no problem using the "Boy Named Sue" approach to a challenging name makes you stronger. I looked into variants: Lulu (too babyish to use for a lifetime?), Louisa, but couldn't see anything great. Frankly, I think it's a harsh-sounding name, and would be fine with just doing June Estelle Zebraitis, but that doesn't seem fair to my husband. We could do June Liudvika Estelle, but the syllable pattern of 1-2-3-3 sounds much better to me than 1-3-2-3. Or, we could do, June Liudvika Zebraitis, but then I feel like all she's really got to work with is June, and all the other names are just harsh and not very pretty.
Other names on our list:Brooksley (after economist Brooksley Born, but since no one would likely get this, it then sounds like Kaylee or something to me, so I don't like it for that reason)BrookeDylan Ava (too popular, though, so no)Arden (i kind of don't like that it sounds like "harden", though)MadisonStella (my grandmother went by Stella, we could do Stella June Liudvika, but I like my first choice far better)
Please help us!
Currently the name Nico is used much more often for boys than for girls in the United States: the Social Security Administration reports 522 new baby boys and 35 new baby girls named Nico in 2011. It seems like a cute choice for a girl if I say it again and again, a name like Mia or Nicki. But if I saw it on a piece of paper, or in a sibling group with a Hudson and a Miles, I'd assume Nico was a boy---not like, "I wonder if that's a boy or a girl? More likely a boy," but rather in the same way I'd assume Hudson and Miles were boys. There is nothing inherently wrong with choosing a more-often-used-for-boys name for a girl or vice versa, but I think of it as the kind of choice that needs extra thought.
It's hard to know what to advise here. I can throw my full support behind the idea of June with grandmother middle names, which seems perfect to me---but I can't picture that endorsement making your husband think, "Oh! Well, okay then, I'm happy with the name June!" Even if we had a poll and we ALL voted for June (and of course not all of us would), you two are the only real voters.
It would be best if we could find a way to make a better offer, more like a compromise that lets your husband keep his choice without forcing you to use it as the first name---something like using Nico as the middle name, or using Nico as a nickname: June to Junie to Nico? It's not traditional or intuitive, but these are desperate times.
I'm afraid that what usually happens in cases where each parent has committed to a favorite the other parent can't agree to is that both parents have to drop their choices and find something new: for most of us, it's too hard to go through the heartbreak of giving up a favorite name AND then agree to the other parent's favorite. If it does come down to starting from scratch, you'll need to both make sure you're not thinking of the task as "Finding a name I like better than Nico/June," but instead as "Finding a name we can agree on from all the names that remain."
One possibility for compromise is the name Annika. It lacks the simplicity of June, but it's more feminine and flexible than Nico, and A.Z. are very cute initials. And it certainly has room for the nickname Niko or Nika; your husband could call her that exclusively, if he liked. Annika June is lovely.
Veronica and Danica could work the same way.
Or Cleo has some of the sound of Nico, while being more feminine.
Juno may be too associated with movies and goddesses, but it's like a hybrid of June and Nico.
Baby Girl Mikle, Sister to Daniel, Amelia, Samuel, and William
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L. writes:
I notice that all four of the baby's siblings have a strong L sound in their name, tying in with the L sound in your surname. I think that since this is your final child, I would make it a goal (not a trumps-all goal, but a preference) to find a strong L sound for her as well.
Three of the four names also contain an M sound to tie into the surname, and Daniel has an N sound which is very close to that. This makes Madeleine seem like a great choice: both an L sound and an M sound. I do think you'd find it challenging to get Ellie used as a nickname; Maddy is used so commonly. And we discovered when we briefly had a cat named Madeline that the spelling/pronunciation issues are surprisingly constant: everyone seems to know there are two options, so it was "Madda lin, line?" anytime anyone saw her name. If that's the name you love best, however, the good news is that everyone seems to know already that it's an issue---so it'll probably be similar to all of us who have to specify a K instead of a C, an -en instead of an -in, two L's instead of one, etc.
Emeline is another good option for the L and the M, but I think it's much too close to Amelia. And Isla, Tabitha, and Harper don't have the easy traditional feeling you'd prefer. Let's see if we can find some more options.
If Louisa is out, perhaps Eloise is also out. If not, I like that it introduces a new consonant sound to the group, while still including an L sound. And if you like the nickname Ellie, I think you could get it here. Eloise Mikle.
Eliza is another possibility, and one of my own favorites. Again, the L sound to tie the name in with the others, but a new consonant sound to lessen confusion. And I think it's particularly nice with the sibling group: Daniel, Amelia, Samuel, William, and Eliza. It sounds like a family right out of a Laura Ingalls Wilder book!
Or Eleanor, which would be another way to get Ellie. (Or you could go with Nora.)
Or Elizabeth, which would give her even more nickname options.
I also suggest Lucy. It fits well in style with the sibling names, and putting the L sound first may help keep the names from sounding too similar. I also considered suggesting Lillian, but I think that might go overboard on the L.
Or Laura, speaking of Laura Ingalls Wilder.
Annabelle makes me think of Abigail. Mia and Abby are cute sister nicknames.
Or Hannah. No L sound---but that's just ME who's looking for an L sound! Hannah Mikle. Daniel, Amelia, Samuel, William, and Hannah. Very nice.
Isla makes me think of Lila. Again, maybe a little overboard on the L---but maybe not. Lila Mikle sounds nice to me; I think it might be the L's AND short-I of Lillian that made it seem like too much.
I think Clara would go beautifully with the sibling set. Clara Mikle.
Or Charlotte. Daniel, Amelia, Samuel, William, and Charlotte.
We are ready for baby number 5, our second daughter, in afew weeks. Her older sibling names are all traditional: Daniel, Amelia (Mia),Samuel (Sam), William. Our last name is Mikle (rhymes with nickle). We really like easy traditional names, but with all ofthe darling girl options, plus the added pressure of naming our LAST child we arefeeling rather stuck. We have a middle name which will be Rae after myGrandmother, but our “perfect” first name still eludes us. Our top names are:Madeleine (pronounced “Line” not “Lyn”), Isla, Tabitha, Harper, and Emeline.Madeleine (Ellie as a nickname), would be our top pick, but I am concerned thespelling with the extra “e” and the pronunciation issue will be tedious forher. I also adore Tabitha, but only seem to get a lukewarm response from mu hubby on this name. We have also loved, but ruled out Louisa, Beatrice, Adele, and Annabelle for various family conflict reasons. Advice????
I notice that all four of the baby's siblings have a strong L sound in their name, tying in with the L sound in your surname. I think that since this is your final child, I would make it a goal (not a trumps-all goal, but a preference) to find a strong L sound for her as well.
Three of the four names also contain an M sound to tie into the surname, and Daniel has an N sound which is very close to that. This makes Madeleine seem like a great choice: both an L sound and an M sound. I do think you'd find it challenging to get Ellie used as a nickname; Maddy is used so commonly. And we discovered when we briefly had a cat named Madeline that the spelling/pronunciation issues are surprisingly constant: everyone seems to know there are two options, so it was "Madda lin, line?" anytime anyone saw her name. If that's the name you love best, however, the good news is that everyone seems to know already that it's an issue---so it'll probably be similar to all of us who have to specify a K instead of a C, an -en instead of an -in, two L's instead of one, etc.
Emeline is another good option for the L and the M, but I think it's much too close to Amelia. And Isla, Tabitha, and Harper don't have the easy traditional feeling you'd prefer. Let's see if we can find some more options.
If Louisa is out, perhaps Eloise is also out. If not, I like that it introduces a new consonant sound to the group, while still including an L sound. And if you like the nickname Ellie, I think you could get it here. Eloise Mikle.
Eliza is another possibility, and one of my own favorites. Again, the L sound to tie the name in with the others, but a new consonant sound to lessen confusion. And I think it's particularly nice with the sibling group: Daniel, Amelia, Samuel, William, and Eliza. It sounds like a family right out of a Laura Ingalls Wilder book!
Or Eleanor, which would be another way to get Ellie. (Or you could go with Nora.)
Or Elizabeth, which would give her even more nickname options.
I also suggest Lucy. It fits well in style with the sibling names, and putting the L sound first may help keep the names from sounding too similar. I also considered suggesting Lillian, but I think that might go overboard on the L.
Or Laura, speaking of Laura Ingalls Wilder.
Annabelle makes me think of Abigail. Mia and Abby are cute sister nicknames.
Or Hannah. No L sound---but that's just ME who's looking for an L sound! Hannah Mikle. Daniel, Amelia, Samuel, William, and Hannah. Very nice.
Isla makes me think of Lila. Again, maybe a little overboard on the L---but maybe not. Lila Mikle sounds nice to me; I think it might be the L's AND short-I of Lillian that made it seem like too much.
I think Clara would go beautifully with the sibling set. Clara Mikle.
Or Charlotte. Daniel, Amelia, Samuel, William, and Charlotte.
Baby Girl or Boy Kenya-with-a-B, Sibling to Blaze
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Kellie writes:
I think I would avoid a first name and surname that both ended with -er, but that doesn't mean it's not okay to use it if you want to. Because the name Harper is so much more common for girls than Blaze is for boys, and because it ends in -er like your surname, and because your husband likes single-syllable names, I suggest Harp.
Because you like Braelyn and Caelyn, I also suggest Maelyn and Layle (rhymes with Gail) and Vayla and Maeve and Callan.
Because you like Lexi, I suggest Bex and Beck and Laney and Delaney.
Because you like Piper and Harper, I suggest Juniper.
A name like Blaze seems like it needs a pretty cool/tough brother name. Some possibilities:
Arrow
Axel
Axton
Bax
Bode
Cain
Colt
Cord
Daxton
Drake
Duke
Flint
Ford
Hugo
Hutch
Jax
Lance
Maxon
Maxton
Maxx
Nash
Orion
Otto
Pierce
Rhett
Ripley
Slate
Steele
Stone
Vaughn
West
Zed
I LOVE your blog! Have been reading daily for months and months now and wrote to you for help with my first baby 14 months ago (without an answer), so I'm writing this time in desperation!! I'm Kellie, my husband is Craig and our surname is like Kenya with with a 'B'
My husband and I have recently found out we're expecting our second bub due end of March, so while we have quite some time to pick a name, it's already causing so much angst for both of us! We had a name picked out for our first baby before he was even conceived, then a short while before he was born it got used by someone we knew so we lost interest and were at a complete loss for names! That name was Jett, and as much as I love the name, I just know I couldn't use it - there's a total loss of connection with it. We named our son Blaze as per my husbands suggestion right before he was born and I love how qwerky, different and unique it is. It suits our son perfectly! (I also LOVE that SO many people say 'wow, that's a great/cool name!'
We won't be finding out the sex of this baby, but we're pretty certain we have a girls name picked and that's Harper. Do you think the two 'er' endings are ok together?
I also like Harlow and a few of the other girls names I liked but am not 100% on are:
Lexi (not Alexis - just Lexi, which I think would prompt every one to ask if it's short for something, so might be an issue)
Caelyn
Laci
Braelyn
Piper (but was used by a relative, so it's definitely out - but I LOVE it).
Isla
And finally Poppy. This name is actually used as a nickname for the baby while in utero as this baby is due on his/her Poppys birthday (and I like that the baby is the size of a poppy seed at the very beginning!). I am becoming very, very fond of this name as it has a bonding capacity for me and the baby so as much as I love this baby in my belly, I'm loving the name that that baby has. I am pretty certain we will use this name as a middle name (if it's a girl) as it has such a special feeling to it and the connection with his/her Poppy is so lovely to me.
In general I quite like girls names that are unisex (but am not in love with them/or game enough to use them!) like:
Jamie
Billie
Boys names are a lot more tricky (and I'm sure I'm having a boy!)
I love Cruz (or Cruse), (but hubby doesn't)
I like Levi (but hubby doesn't)
I like Balen (but hubby doesn't)
I like Pax or Paxton (but hubby doesn't)
I don't mind Knox - but not sold on it
Love Beau and considered it for our first baby, but again hubby isn't sold!
I like Maddox but am worried about nicknames like 'Mad' or 'Ox' and the pronunciation might get exhausting when used regularly - what do you think?
I'd really like a boys name with a 'v' or 'x' or 'z' to go with Blaze which has the 'z'.
Hubby likes single syllable names so it can't be shortened or have a nickname, but as it appears from my lists above, I'm indifferent to this. I definitely want something that is different although if it's popular I don't mind so much.
One last thing - we used both our grandfathers names for Blazes middle names (Brian and Douglas) but haven't got a clue what we'll do for this one (for a boy). I'm pretty sure we'll use our second favourite name, so perhaps I'll get one from my list that husband has vetoed!
Any suggestions for the name that is perfect but we're missing?! Would love your help PLEASE?
I think I would avoid a first name and surname that both ended with -er, but that doesn't mean it's not okay to use it if you want to. Because the name Harper is so much more common for girls than Blaze is for boys, and because it ends in -er like your surname, and because your husband likes single-syllable names, I suggest Harp.
Because you like Braelyn and Caelyn, I also suggest Maelyn and Layle (rhymes with Gail) and Vayla and Maeve and Callan.
Because you like Lexi, I suggest Bex and Beck and Laney and Delaney.
Because you like Piper and Harper, I suggest Juniper.
A name like Blaze seems like it needs a pretty cool/tough brother name. Some possibilities:
Arrow
Axel
Axton
Bax
Bode
Cain
Colt
Cord
Daxton
Drake
Duke
Flint
Ford
Hugo
Hutch
Jax
Lance
Maxon
Maxton
Maxx
Nash
Orion
Otto
Pierce
Rhett
Ripley
Slate
Steele
Stone
Vaughn
West
Zed
Baby Naming Issue: Okay to Use the Same Sibling Names as Another Family?
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Deborah writes:
This is difficult. I am usually wayyyy over on the "Names are not one-time-use items" end of the spectrum, but even I would balk at duplicating a sibling group. It doesn't bother me to think of the two sibling groups in the same school system, and it doesn't seem worth changing naming plans based on the idea that the two families might become friends---and yet it still bothers me, for a reason I can't put a finger on. I think for me it's more that I'd be imagining what the other family would think of it: it's not the same as if you met after the children were all named, in which case it would be a fun coincidence. I LIKE the idea of a friend using the name of one of my kids for her child---but I think I'd start feeling funny about it if she used TWO of my kids' names. Because the two Amelies were named before the families met, this situation falls somewhere in between. But because you describe Elise as a frontrunner and not a true love, in this case I think I would drop the name from the list.
If you do decide to use the name Elise, or even if it continues to be a contender, I'd figure out something to say about it. The subject of your pregnancy is likely to come up repeatedly, and I would wait for a good moment. Perhaps the other mother will ask if you've thought about names, and you can say, "You're not going to believe this: our frontrunner has been the name Elise! Those names must be particularly good together, for both of us to come up with that combination!"
In the meantime, let's look at the other contenders. I would not pair a unisex and surnamey name like Hayden with a very feminine and French name like Amelie, but it might end up working well as a middle name. Dana, too, seems like style clash. Lisbeth and Giselle both seem great, though I see the issue with the associations. (Elsbeth might work as an alternative to Lisbeth.)
I particularly like Lisette and Josette and Nadia. If you plan on having more children later, I like the way Nadia keeps you from being backed into an all-French corner.
My favorite French name right now is Celeste. Celeste Vieira; Amelie and Celeste.
Another favorite is Corinne. Amelie and Corinne.
Another is Noelle. Amelie and Noelle.
Another is Simone. Amelie and Simone.
Another is Eloise. Amelie and Eloise.
I also think Estelle would make a wonderful first name.
I love your blog and your insightful feedback into all the naming challenges your readers have. I'd love your two cents with mine.
We had an easy time naming our first daughter, Amelie Lorenne, and have never looked back. At the time, Audrey was a strong contender, but we preferred the lovely, less common Amelie in the end. My mother's side has some french, and we sort of mashed up our own special meaning based on the name's pronunciation and our daughter's Portuguese-Jewish heritage (Alma is soul in Portuguese, Li is mine in Hebrew). Our surname is Vieira (Vee-air-uh).
With number two, hubby and I have yet to find a true love, but have some contestants such far. Elise was the front-runner (no ideas on a middle for that one), until I recently began carpooling with a family 2 blocks away, who already have an Amelie my daughter's age (almost 3), and a second daughter (5) named - you guessed it -- Elise. I think it would be too weird naming our daughters the same names, knowing these girls would be in the same schools their whole childhood, and we'll likely become family friends, but my husband begs to differ. Your thoughts?
Other potential contenders:-Audrey (but too similar to Amelie, I think) -Dana (but too hard-sounding beside the french Amelie)-Danae (deh-Nay, a french variant of Dana, that sounds softer, but concerned about mispronunciation)-Lisbeth (don't want 'Girl w Dragon Tattoo' association, even though character in book rocked)-Giselle (don't want supermodel association, though that is our generation, not our kids...)-Hayden (but have been warned that a cross-over name might indicate our wish for a son, which isn't the case at all)
We also are considering Nadia, Sonia, Marise, Marine, Lisette, and Josette.
The only middle name thus far is Estelle, my (deceased) grandmother's name. Our other daughter doesn't have a family name, but I wouldn't mind changing it with our second daughter.
Many thanks on any and all suggestions
This is difficult. I am usually wayyyy over on the "Names are not one-time-use items" end of the spectrum, but even I would balk at duplicating a sibling group. It doesn't bother me to think of the two sibling groups in the same school system, and it doesn't seem worth changing naming plans based on the idea that the two families might become friends---and yet it still bothers me, for a reason I can't put a finger on. I think for me it's more that I'd be imagining what the other family would think of it: it's not the same as if you met after the children were all named, in which case it would be a fun coincidence. I LIKE the idea of a friend using the name of one of my kids for her child---but I think I'd start feeling funny about it if she used TWO of my kids' names. Because the two Amelies were named before the families met, this situation falls somewhere in between. But because you describe Elise as a frontrunner and not a true love, in this case I think I would drop the name from the list.
If you do decide to use the name Elise, or even if it continues to be a contender, I'd figure out something to say about it. The subject of your pregnancy is likely to come up repeatedly, and I would wait for a good moment. Perhaps the other mother will ask if you've thought about names, and you can say, "You're not going to believe this: our frontrunner has been the name Elise! Those names must be particularly good together, for both of us to come up with that combination!"
In the meantime, let's look at the other contenders. I would not pair a unisex and surnamey name like Hayden with a very feminine and French name like Amelie, but it might end up working well as a middle name. Dana, too, seems like style clash. Lisbeth and Giselle both seem great, though I see the issue with the associations. (Elsbeth might work as an alternative to Lisbeth.)
I particularly like Lisette and Josette and Nadia. If you plan on having more children later, I like the way Nadia keeps you from being backed into an all-French corner.
My favorite French name right now is Celeste. Celeste Vieira; Amelie and Celeste.
Another favorite is Corinne. Amelie and Corinne.
Another is Noelle. Amelie and Noelle.
Another is Simone. Amelie and Simone.
Another is Eloise. Amelie and Eloise.
I also think Estelle would make a wonderful first name.
27 Eylül 2012 Perşembe
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